In this section you are invited to air your views about the Association, send messages to the Committee, use it to contact other members, etc - or to just be generally 'chatty'! Just click on 'Comments' (below right) and the pages of previous comments will be displayed. You will find a form to make a contribution at the bottom of the page. This action does not reveal your e-mail address for those dreaded 'Spammers'. Unless you have your own website, the URL box can be ignored.
The newest contribution is shown first and they continue in ascending age order, the oldest comment being on the very last page. At the bottom of each page there is a small >> symbol for moving to another page.
If you complete the 'Subscribe' item at the bottom of the left column with your e-mail address and reply to the subsequent e-mail you will then receive a message when a new 'Comment' has been added. This is a good way of keeping in touch with the good news (the Association has been rescued from extinction) and the bad - deaths and the funeral arrangements. A couple of points - I am satisfied that, whilst you give your e-mail address, it is safe. Also, don't expect instant results. The provider of the service saves up the messages for transmission in bulk.
I hope you will subscribe to this service and help to maintain the liveliness of the Association.
My thanks to Peter Simpson for his compliments to us old techies, much appreciated!
Did you know that us in the Radio trades (Wireless / Radar etc) were known as 'Fairy's' by the 'Heavies'(Airframes, Engines), nothing to do with our personal proclivities.
As they couldn't see moving parts, it must be magic, we just waved a wand & it worked!
I can remember testing the Cloud & Clunk radar by waving a fluorescent tube in front of the radome while it was running & it would light up ... Happy days..
Posted by: Bruce Allen | October 26, 2009 at 06:38 PM
It is "Get on High Horse Time"
Bruce Allen describes himself as a mera Radio Techie.
If all the Radio Techies stayed in bed one day the Brit fleet would have been grounded. If the ALMs had done the same, there would have been a lot of thirsty captains.
Peter Simpson
Posted by: Peter Simpson. | October 25, 2009 at 02:45 PM
As a mere Radio techie at Lyneham in BSSF (1966 ish)I well remember the Mk2 Brits & the subtle differences in their radio fits, spent many a happy hour lying on the floor swapping out bits while new 'loadies' stepped over me, (most of the time not stepping on me!) If I recall the Mk 2's were used mainly for VIP stuff?
PS I was at the Boy Entrants reunion at Cosford this year & at the Air Museum they have on static display, looking gorgeous, a Brit which I took photo's of if anyone is interested??
Regards
Bruce Allen
San Diego
Posted by: Bruce Allen | October 23, 2009 at 04:23 PM
There have been a number of topics to which I have intended to respond - and not done it! Now there is another - 398. So, here is a bit of catching up.
Coincidentally, I have been in touch with Tim Simmonds to ask him to provide some details to go with the photographs to which Ian has referred. I'm not sure that Tim 'Subscribes' to this Forum so I will contact him and draw attention to the contribution from Mike.
It's great how the comments have flowed this past week or so. A major topic has been the attempt to establish a date for the transfer of Britannia operations to Brize Norton. It turns out to be not easy! That all powerful organisation, the Committee, has decided to give up the unequal struggle and settle for a date with a nice ring about it - 1st July 1970. Standby for news of how we can celebrate the 40th anniversary of this event.
A fantastic use of the site has been Chas Bidmead introducing himself and wondering if anyone remembers him. Well, he was obviously a bit of a character as evidenced by the response.
This generated a discussion on crew names in log books. I feel rather pleased that I did record the whole crew in my entries! Perhaps a psychologist would find whether one did this or not an interesting subject for analysis? Maybe the simple answer would be that filling in the log book, with just the minimum detail, was a bit of a bind anyway. The only contribution I can offer to Ian's query as to whether the crew names are preserved somewhere is a negative one. The Squadron Form 540 was composed by some luckless individual outlining the tasks completed that month. The Adjutant then added details from the Authorisation Sheets - but I don't think this extended to crew names. The F.540s are preserved in the Record Office at Kew - I imagine the sheets were dumped.
If you still have your log books to hand, can you look to see if you did any interesting trips in 496. My log book would not be a true record. To dilute the saintly picture painted above, I sometimes made up the airframe numbers when the information wasn't easily available!
Again, while flipping through those pages, does it remind you of some short story to tell. I am resuming editorship of the magazine and I can picture a feature entitled 'Log Book Memories'. I would welcome any contributions.
With someone like Peter Simpson, what author/publisher needs an agent! After his kind plug for my book, 'The RAF Britannia and its people', it would be foolish of me not to provide purchase details. They are available at http://www.keyhambooks.co.uk.
Staying on the topic of books, I have been engaged in a small 'Private Venture' - a tribute to 496. Details are at http://www.blurb.com/my/store/public.
Good wishes to you all.
David Berry
Posted by: David Berry | October 22, 2009 at 10:10 AM
Hello Mike
You are right about XN398, later 9Q-CPX, ending up at Goma. Charles Woodley's 'History of the Bristol Britannia' shows it as being broken up there, and I am sure David Berry, as Association archivist, will confirm that.
At this year's Reunion I was given a few photos of the derelict ex-RAF Britannias at Goma,and one of them shows the rear end of that very aircraft with its registration.
I also have a personal interest in XN398 as, on moving to my retirement home some seven years ago, I inherited a phone number ending in 398. So we promptly named the bungalow 'Altair' after the aeroplane's RAF name!
398 was also the first RAF Britannia to arrive at Lyneham, the 50th anniversary of which was celebrated by a Britannia Association day visit to Lyneham back in March this year.
The Mk2s stick in my Sig/AEOp's mind too because of the different radio and intercom fit they had.
As to parts recovery, I doubt that much remains now.
Regards to all
Ian
Posted by: Ian Partridge | October 22, 2009 at 09:09 AM
Hi from down under.
I picked up a copy recently of the Flypast magazine for March 2009. It had an article on Britannias. There was a list given of surviving airframes one of which is possibly XN398 (9Q-CPX). It was derelict (probably not flown since 1995) at a place called Goma in the Congo. I wonder if anyone has seen it since then? It would be nice to enlist the aid of the RAF to go for a retrieval excerise (I gather they sometimes do this for other aircraft around the world)for some spare parts, if anything is left. A word from someone in the know to the UK Ambassador in the Congo might bring some results. I know it's all pie in the sky but closure on this aircraft, one of our own and a C2 at that, would be great. Regards Mike Joyce (ex 511)
Posted by: Mike Joyce | October 21, 2009 at 04:03 AM
Hi Charlie & Pete
It really is good to have made contact again. I am sure Ian won't mind if I include the contact details for The Air Loadmaster Association below but please do join The Brit Association. The Brit reunions are always fantastic and of course we fly the Changi Slip and the Oil Lift always with our rose tinted spectacles on.
Also a big hello to Mike Joyce. Hope all is well with you Mike. Any chance of you joining us in 2010 at Blunsdon. Brandy sours are on offer . On second thoughts this possibly might put you off. It would be so good to see you again
An on line application form for ALMA can be found on www.btinternet.com/~rafalmanac/application.htm The Secretary is Jacqui Wheeler (Teddy Gibby),
The Secretary, The Air Loadmaster Association,
Southover, Blacksmith's Lane. Boothby Graffoe, Lincolnshire. LN5 0LQ.
Many kind regards to you. The reunions certainly prove that it isn't difficult to enjoy the company of old friends. Hope to see you next year
Ann
Posted by: Ann Bihan | October 12, 2009 at 12:36 PM
Thanks Chas. Nice to know I had a great crewman down the back as you all were both guys and girls. Where would we have been without you? I didn't get to Dar but.....
I flew out in 658 with F/L Freeman as my co-pilot on 29th November 1965 for a return trip to Akrotiri on the set up of the Oil Lift. I was then told to continue on to Nairobi. Whilst there I flew to Mauritius via Aden and back with some troops. On descent into Nairobi on 14th December we heard the UK Brit Outbound. Finally got back to the UK on 23rd December in 518. Anne my wife and Richard my son plus the dog had gone back to her parents in Gloucester leaving me a note. Since we didn't have a joint bank account she had run out of the weeks money I had left her!! One could say welcome to the "Mushroom Club" as early as that. Cheers Mike Joyce
Posted by: Mike Joyce | October 12, 2009 at 03:54 AM
Comments on the Forum are like London buses. Nothing, and then loads come at the same time. Even though I was on 99 I remember Chas Bidmead well. Along with so many, I spent a lot of time on the 'Oil Lift.' Once we got on the detachment there was no squadron rivalry.
And then the answers ! I now find there is an Air Loadmasters Association. Thank you Ann. Can somebody give me information on where, when and how. I would like to join. After my visit to Lyneham earlier this year,and meeting Ann, Dudley Clarke and Teddy Gibby, I bought the book. The RAF Britannia and its people. What a fantastic book. A 'must read' for all ex 99 and 511. A bit of a shock to turn a page and be confronted by a photo of oneself 45 years ago. At the last few comments on the forum seem to be looking for people, Is Brian Jordan out there ?
There is a big write up about Lord Mountbatten's last trip as the Chief of the Defense staff in 'The Book' Brian Jordan,Valerie Cross and I were Loadmasters on that trip and I remember a funny story that should be included in the next print. Just before start up a cardboard box of strawberries was delivered from The Mountbatten estate. They were for his Lordship's tea. They were dirty and covered in straw. Brian, Valerie and I washed them and served them in silver dishes. His Lordship went mad. He had wanted them served in the box, straight from his farm,dirt and all.
Contact :-
Peter Simpson
simpsonsinspain@terra.es
Posted by: Peter Simpson. | October 11, 2009 at 06:01 PM
Hi Ann
How could I forget you!?
However, you will have to remind me about George as I must have wiped the memory from my mind as too dreadful to think about :)
I have spent an amount of time trying to track down various people, especially Fritz, as he was one of my best mates before he went off to train as an ATC occifer.
Sadly no joy and then I found the Forum and the AQM/Loadie site within days of each other. Even a picture of me on 137 Aqm course!
I guess I will have to join both organisations and get back in touch with people before we all fall off the perch!
Great to hear from you and do remind me about 'George'
Take care
Chas (aka Charlie Bigweed)
Posted by: Chas Bidmead | October 11, 2009 at 01:54 PM
Hi Mike
Indeed I was with you on several excursions but as to exact dates.....
Sadly, I lost my logbooks and other memorabilia from our halcyon days and have only my ageing memory which is less than reliable.
I was on one of the first flights that were redirected from the Med and spent many days with only one change of clothes.
Were you in Dar for the Christmas/New Year celebrations when we fitted the pool with lights and entertained the locals?
Ah happy days - if only I could remember more!
Cheers to all
Chas
Posted by: Chas Bidmead | October 11, 2009 at 01:45 PM
Hello Charlie
What a blast from the past. Do you remember me Ann Culliford (now Bihan) ex 511. Have your ears not been burning over the years so many people have enquired after you. Did you realise your name is legend in connection with George Luckins. In fact I have just returned from The Air Loadmaster Association Reunion and over several brandy sours last night your name came into the conversation. Amongst those present were Stu Bailey, Bert Desmond, Rita Bradbury, Bob Bickers to name a few. We also are all members of the Brit Association and regularly attend the Brit Reunions. We would all love to make contact you again. Also any idea what happened to Fritz Houghton?
Look forward to hearing from you.
Kind regards
Ann
Posted by: Ann Bihan | October 11, 2009 at 12:58 PM
Mike - Your comment about including all crew names in your log book, plus the fact that my log book entries only ever include the captain's name, reminds me to ask if anyone knows whether full crew names on flights were recorded, and if so where?
I rather assume the answer ought to be 'yes'. Where could I go to find this out? Over to you more knowledgeable Forum correspondents...
Ian
Posted by: Ian Partridge | October 10, 2009 at 03:02 PM
Hello Chas B
I recall that you may have been with me on an Oil Lift, but like an idiot which I regret deeply,I did not include all the crew in my log book. Perhaps you and any others might let me know if they flew with me from February 1965 to July 1967. Cheers Mike Joyce Ex 511
Posted by: Mike Joyce | October 10, 2009 at 05:11 AM
Hello ChasB, and welcome to the Forum.
I can't say I recall you, even though my time at Lyneham overlapped yours. But then, I was on the 'other' squadron and later on ATS(B)!
You will no doubt have found the photos in the website gallery; I have some which were taken during an Oil Lift detachment - I must get them on to this site.
I see you are not yet a member of the Association; we would love to welcome you via the membership form above.
With best wishes
Ian
Chairman, the Britannia Association
Posted by: Ian Partridge | October 09, 2009 at 01:21 PM
Greetings all.
Having only just found this most excellent site, let me introduce myself.
I was one of, if not the first, direct entry Sgt AQMs (none of this US Loadie rubbish)and flew on 511 Sqn from 1964 - 1968.
Apart from a couple of memorable 'Pond Jump' exercises, including ground liaison in Hawaii, some of the best times where the Mushroom Airways days during the oil lift.
Are there any pictures or Forum strands covering that time? And, of course, is there anyone out there who vaguely remembers me (or is still trying to forget)?
Best wishes to you all.
ChasB
Posted by: Chas Bidmead | October 09, 2009 at 09:16 AM
Following comments about dates of moving from Lyneham to Brize Norton perhaps I can add this.
I felt the obvious way to go from airfield to airfield was to fly! We therefore set off in XM489 on 9th June 1970 and landed at Brize on 24th June.
This of course was not just a long flight but another world trainer which I was pleased to command!
The task number was 6027 and embraced the usual wide range of training and examination experiences for all aircrew duties in an inclusive and hopefully constructive 'family' atmosphere and ably supported by our two ground crewchiefs.
The pilots consisted of some members of 59 course including Capt Cooke, USAF, and Flt Lts Yarrow and Buckley.
Perhaps this narrows down the Brize arrival date a bit! With kind regards to all.
Posted by: Norman Jasper | October 08, 2009 at 06:47 PM
Great news that people can now find the REAL Britannia Association.
Thanks for the ColaLife plug Dad - much appreciated - for everyone else . . . please pass the ColaLife link (http://colalife.org) on to children, grandchildren and friends. We need all the support we can get. People joining our Facebook page (http://facebook.com/colalife) is what has turned the head of Coca-Cola to _think_ about doing things differently. We just need to keep the pressure on so that they actually _do_ something!
Oh. And on the 18 years of support thing. You got off very lightly! It's takes a lot longer for today's children to reach financial experience!
Simon
Posted by: Simon Berry | October 07, 2009 at 09:33 PM
Just to add to the mix of info re first ac into Brize, I was one of the three navs on the OCU Global Trainer which left Lyneham on 16 June 1970 on 658 and returned on 1 Jul. I don't have times but suspect our arrival was a night one.
Dougie Graham
Posted by: Dougie Graham | October 07, 2009 at 10:14 AM
Sandy
We flew the last SCHEDULED Britannia flight from Lyneham, I would imagine there were other departures after that. We left XM520 at Akrotiri, so I don't have any record of it's return flight. We operated XM491 AKR - LUQ - BZN on July 1st. That must have been a West Med.
John
Posted by: John James | October 06, 2009 at 10:32 AM
Here is a little bit of Britannia Association Internet history!
The Association's first appearance on the Internet was as a page on my website (www.keyhambooks.co.uk). The battle is to get such a page to feature in a Google search - I struggled and had only minor success.
Then, in 2001, the RN College at Dartmouth set up an organisation for past students. As the College is HMS Britannia it perhaps isn't surprising that they chose Britannia Association as the title. I did correspond over the matter!
This entry of another Britannia Association completely wiped us off Google!
Then, in 2007, I took the advice of Simon, my eldest son, and joined a system called Typepad. It is, essentially, for bloggers but it can be adapted to a website and this is what you are viewing now.
Simon did forecast that using Typepad would put us into Google - he was right! Check it out now - we are Number Two! So, there are rewards for feeding, clothing etc a child for 18 years!
It is possible to examine the statistics for the site and these show that, during its lifetime there have been 11,332 viewings, an average of 14.09 per day!
In return for Simon's help, I am using this opportunity to draw your attention to an amazing campaign he is waging. I'll say no more and leave it to you to investigate at www.colalife.org.
Here's to the continued success of the Association.
David
Posted by: David Berry | October 06, 2009 at 10:19 AM
John you were the last crew to leave Lyneham but was yours definitely the first to go into BZN. Perhaps the a/c which left Lyn just before yours actually went into BZN first. Sorry but there must be something in the BZN archive for that year.
Posted by: Sandy Barnes | October 05, 2009 at 10:43 PM
Thanks, John, for the info. I hoped you would respond and you didn't disappoint!
Cheers!
David
Posted by: David Berry | October 04, 2009 at 09:48 AM
David
The last scheduled Britannia flight was on June 15th 1970. We departed Lyneham on a Changi Slip, which ended at BZN on July 1st. The a/c was XM520.
Cheers
John
p.s. With an unusual amount of self discipline we didn't open the bottle of champagne until we reached Bahrain!
Posted by: John James | October 03, 2009 at 12:48 PM
This might reveal some devious plan of the Committee - but the chance is being taken!
What would be the defined date for the Britannia move to Brize Norton?
Those of us involved would know that there was an advance party - there was a ceremony with 99 Squadron's Colour - but perhaps that moves away from the 'work'!
What happened with servicing?
On the flying side, the pattern was established of aircraft departing on route from Lyneham and returning to Brize - were you on that first crew? If so, can you provide a date?
Perhaps the key date would be the last departure from Lyneham and the date of arrival back at Brize? Step forward with your log books Jimmy James and crew.
The Committee look forward to anchoring a date.
Best wishes to you all
David Berry
Posted by: David Berry | October 02, 2009 at 10:30 PM